[GB]

Here is a wonderful little story I’d like to share.

Last Sunday, 2:00 pm, shopping with family looking for a new bike for 6-year-old. Hit the local stores with little success. Decided to stop at one more.

Ok, picture this; two lanes of traffic. One lane into the store parking lot, one lane exiting. I am in my full size pickup and turn right from a busy road into the store parking lot. Cutting it sharp to avoid something posing as a human being.

Mr. Transient is standing between lanes with his “please help me get drunk tonight” sign. My window is down and I say to him: “get the hell out of the road”. A quick wink in the mirror indicates his dissatisfaction with suggestion to save his life. I proceed to the store and my wife notices that now three dirt bags are coming across the parking lot yelling and motioning. I see this and determine my exit is blocked. I could have 4-wheeled it in hind site but…

I pull a u-turn and drive up to the front entrance of the store. I mean up to it literally. Hazards turned on, I got out hearing scum bags yelling and motioning all sorts of choice words as the lead guy starts tearing off his coat. The distance is about 75 yards. No weapons see at this point. I instruct my wife to grab child one as I grab child two and move quickly into the store. Lock truck. I grab an employee and instruct her to move the family towards the back of the store and I tell the front desk person to call 911 immediately. This was quicker than cell phone. I wait as she does this. Scum is now in site outside door. Adrenalin felt at this point. OC in left hand, coat now unzipped and hand ready to grab concealed handgun if any weapon is noted. Before dispatcher is on the line, three store employee’s spring into action. These are the store manager and two security guards. The scum make a sprint into the woods they call home. The store is very familiar with these losers and have had them trespassed some time ago.

There gone and I get to chat with the three guys for awhile. Clackamas County Sheriffs did not show up and I left with the family after about ½ hour of waiting. Sheriff officer called about and hour latter to discuss. They were apologetic for not being there. I informed them of my levels of protection and my intent to protect myself and family. The response was “it appears you are, good for you”.

I purposely left out the store and specific location. I also do not wish to discuss the issue of homelessness and compassion. These low life scums made bad decisions in life and that’s the point I made to my children. Period. Would I tell him to get out of the MIDDLE of the road again? Probably not but will call police. Not that they can do anything. What do these people have to lose?

Stay armed and stay aware of your surroundings.

[SiG Lady]

We have our share of these types in Eugene, too, that's for sure. I had a guy emerge from the shrubbery near a commercial establishment one day a few years back (before my gun ownership days), and I was trying to take pictures of some fall trees there and he was goin' on and on about his former days with a camera, etc., ad nauseum. I thought to myself, "This jerk is NOT going to go away; I should just make haste, finish my photos and discreetly swoop." Which I ultimately did... but not before he got hostile (I was already in the driver's seat by this time and rolling up the window, thank god) and he was, of course, pi**ed that I wouldn't give him any money. Yeh, right. Now, if I'd had the Sig at that stage of my life, I'd have brandished him a good one, and I betcha anything he'd have vanished right back into the shrubbery from whence his scummy self had emerged.

So, basically these creeps can pop up literally anywhere. Stay on yellow alert. They're out there.

[maladjusted]

Good job Scout Man. Your reaction was excellent. Put a barrier between them and you, got the family safe, make them come through a choke point on their way to you, etc. etc. etc. Fine job.


I won't bust your balls about talking to homeless scumbags in the road and second guess that, but I will say that crap like this is what makes me much more likely to head the other way or ignore with the "don't even think about f-ing with me" look on my face than to say anything. I wasn't there, your call.



Weekend before last Mrs. Mal and I headed down to the Portland Market (first time, figured we should see it since we live here).

As we're exiting the parking garage (which was FILLED with hiding spots for ne'er do wells, much to my displeasure) a homeless guy comes bolting out of the bathroom there at ground level. He's about 6'5 and thick. I'm not little, but this guy was physically imposing.

He's ranting and raving to himself, yelling at cars going by, stopped to bang on a panel van parked on the side of the road.

We gave him a wide berth. You are correct, they've got nothing at all to lose, and they are all over the damn place.

[Q-ball]

Scout Man, I'm impressed. You were constantly aware of your surroundings, kept your head on straight and didn't over react. Good job! I see nothing that you did wrong, even your initial statement to the homeless guy.
The fact that the police didn't even show up is classic....we are responsible for our own safety. Once again, good job.

[MisterEd]

I agree with the others, Scout, you did well and, like you, would probably not in future make ANY kind contact with these types. I have spent much time in some fairly seedy places in my life (five points in Denver, Candlestick park and the Tenderloin in San Fran, Palermo, Sicily to name a few) and while it used to be these types were nothing more than harmless winos they are now managing to get meth and crack. ALso I have seen an increase in the predatory mentality of them, where it appears they seem to size everybody up as a potential target and any kind of contact IE. either verbal or just eye evokes a fight or flight response with them - much like a wild animal.

[GB]

Thanks to all for the assessment of my actions. I welcome all, positive and constructive.

Note: Once on the phone with police at the front desk I considered that as far backed up as I would go. Beyond that was a maze of isles and my family. They would not have reached my family. I am please it ended as it did. I'll add again that it was stressful and I surely felt the adrenaline.

MisterEd - your right on. Drugs add a new dimension to dealing with the down and out.

[Jon]

I've been fortunate not to have had any significant run-ins with agressive bums...

Scout, I can't find any fault with your actions, and while I might not have said anything to the idiot blocking the road, I just might have said something as well. All depends on how annoyed I might have been with that individual at that time. So I can't fault you on that either.

Sounds like you did everything right. I imagine that if the store employees hadn't stepped in at that moment, three bums would have gotten a facefull of OC at the least. That would have been my course of action as well. And I think we're all glad the idiots didn't do something stupid like pull a knife... They would have learned about the first rule of armed combat. Something about never bringing a knife to a gunfight....

Good job getting the family clear, good job keeping your awareness.

[Scotty V]

Q-ball, on Apr 5 2005, 12:36 PM, said:

The fact that the police didn't even show up is classic....we are responsible for our own safety

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. Great job Scout. Put as much distance between your family and them, with you in the middle. I would have done the exact same thing...including telling the dumbass to get out of the road.

One question though...did your kid ever get the bike?

[Variable]

Scout Man, on Apr 5 2005, 01:47 PM, said:

Thanks to all for the assessment of my actions. I welcome all, positive and constructive.

Ok well I'll bust your balls (as Mal puts it) For the sake constructive. The first thing that comes to mind is "de-escalation of force". Sucking it up at the point when you yelled would have been best. Especially when your family is involved. I know its hard. Like when someone blatantly cuts you off you want to yell and give the person the finger. Then again I dont think you mentioned if you were close to hitting him or they were just standing there. But from your posts I can see now that its something you've looked back on and learned.


All in all, a job well done my friend. Glad you all went home safe. Ohh, and hey, thanks for the post. I always enjoy AA reports.

-Variable

This post has been edited by Variable: 05 April 2005 - 11:14 PM

[MisterEd]

I just hope the ACLU doesn't monitor this forum!!

[jnichols]

Glad to hear evertything turned out alright!! Good Job.

[Fjolnirsson]

Quote

I won't bust your balls about talking to homeless scumbags in the road and second guess that, but I will say that crap like this is what makes me much more likely to head the other way or ignore with the "don't even think about f-ing with me" look on my face than to say anything

Well. here's my .02 cents.
Coming from CA, I've seen the progression. Remember that quote? Something like, "All that is required for evil to triumph, is that good men do nothing...?"
It's true. CA is overrun with beggars at every stoplight. They're aggressive enough to yank on doorhandles in many cases. It's because they know there will be no repecussions for their behavior. Most folks cower in their vehicles, waiting for the light to change. The beggars get bolder and bolder.
By shutting our mouths and letting it pass, we encourage this type of behavior. By denouncing it, we make it less acceptable. If enough people stand up for themselves, these cretins will find other sources of income. Or they will end up dead or in jail.
Most of these folks make a good living doing what they're doing. I've personally witnessed a beggar leave the road with his sign, and drive a new Mercedes out of the bushes near the road. 99% of the time, if somebody asks me for money, they get told to get a **** job. I've worked hard for what I have, 2 and 3 jobs at a time.
Sorry, rant off. I get stirred up over this sort of thing, being from the Bay Area originally. It's a shame what has happened to that state within my lifetime.

To the original poster, Good Job!

[SiG Lady]

Eugene has also become a 'beggar on every corner' kind of community... until one of the Eugene Police took it upon himself to stencil "No Panhandling" signs on the streetcorners that these losers hung out on. Naturally, the losers thinned out right away and the local business owners were incredibly grateful. Then it became a news story and then the cop got in legal trouble for doing it. Never mind that IT WORKED and that the streetcorners in question were cleared nearly overnight. The damn' sidewalks are public property, however, yadda yadda, and so the losers eventually came back to panhandle and do their thing when the stencils were removed.

God, I wish they'd just legislate against panhandling and stop the practice ALTOGETHER and be done with it. People are really ticked that it's still happening. Not all panhandlers are 'aggressive' but many of them are and they are, at the VERY least, intimidating and offensive.

[Scotty V]

Telling someone to get out of the road is road rage? Or are you refering to somewere else in his post?

[Skippy]

SiG Lady, on Apr 5 2005, 08:35 PM, said:

God, I wish they'd just legislate against panhandling and stop the practice ALTOGETHER and be done with it.  People are really ticked that it's still happening.  Not all panhandlers are 'aggressive' but many of them are and they are, at the VERY least, intimidating and offensive. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe we could sell licences and tags to hunt panhandlers. Or place a bounty on them. Honestly most of them are not different than the creatures that we do hunt:

1. most have more hair
2. they smell a lot worse
3. to my knowledge, the biggest difference is the probably taste like @$$, but I'm not going to test that theory. I believe the Donner party tried that, but its not my gig.

These are the random thoughts of a poor college student with nothing better to do late at night, but think of stupid replys to good honest conversations.

[Scotty V]

The activist would be all over those hunters. The species would go extinct and we can't have that now can we?

[GB]

If anything Jim I was trying to "save his life". After all, he was in the middle of the road. My action DID NOT warrent his reaction.

As I clearly stated in my original post; I will not turn this into a topic of homlessness and compasion. And, there are 10 bible quotes out there stating I was in the right.

Stand up for whats right even if you are standing alone.

[Rolem]

I think the only thing I can see wrong here is the WAY he was told to get out of the road. Otherwise I can't see anything else that could have been done better.

[MisterEd]

I see a large part of this as a value issue. While I'm sure most of us value our lives and probably would not even need to be told to get out of the way there is a good possibility these people do not recognize any value of life whatsoever and therefore I must defer to my previous post. IE. contact with these types will do more to invoke problems than anything else. I have read on occasion, and heard news stories in the past that it has been determined a large part of the homeless population is that way due to mental problems. Couple that with drugs and alcohol and you have something truly ferocious on your hands, not capable of reason at all and operating on nothing more than a rudimentary, sociopathic level of wanting (and taking) anything they can for their own sustinence no matter how low or depraved they have become. Anyone here ever gotten off BART at the Civic Center Station in San Francisco?. That renders any homeless problems we have here in Oregon null and void.

[Fjolnirsson]

Quote

Anyone here ever gotten off BART at the Civic Center Station in San Francisco?.

Spent a good deal of time there. Most of those folks are con artists, plain and simple.

Quote

contact with these types will do more to invoke problems than anything else.

These folks are the problem.

Quote

I see a large part of this as a value issue. While I'm sure most of us value our lives and probably would not even need to be told to get out of the way there is a good possibility these people do not recognize any value of life

Not my problem. Their lack of values does not abridge my right to be unmolested in my daily travels.
Some see a danger in confronting these "people". And they are right. There is danger in nearly everything. However, should we allow these people to grow more bold and agressive, 'til we cannot leave our windows down at a signal light for fear of beggars?
I see the danger to my state and republic as greater than any risk of personal harm.
All of the little actions add up. Look at the promoters of gun control. They take a little more, and a little more, until we lose large chunks of our rights. By using appeasement, by looking the other way and not getting involved, we give wordless approval to these actions and results.
Just my .02 cents. No offense to those of you who feel otherwise.

[Jon]

Quote

These folks are the problem.

Not my problem. Their lack of values does not abridge my right to be unmolested in my daily travels.
Some see a danger in confronting these "people". And they are right. There is danger in nearly everything.  However, should we allow these people to grow more bold and agressive, 'til we cannot leave our windows down at a signal light for fear of beggars?
I see the danger to my state and republic as greater than any risk of personal harm.
All of the little actions add up. Look at the promoters of gun control. They take a little more, and a little more, until we lose large chunks of our rights. By using appeasement, by looking the other way and not getting involved, we give wordless approval to these actions and results.
Just my .02 cents. No offense to those of you who feel otherwise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to agree with you on this one, Fjol. While I have never had an issue with super aggressive panhandlers, I suspect that part of that is due to the fact that I'm a pretty big guy, and don't tend to look too sympathetic to their pleas.

<rant>
That being said, I'm fed up with seeing them at every corner, intersection, and freeway off ramp in town. I would love to see an initiative go out to make panhandling illegal. It won't happen, because the namby pamby liberals will scream and cry and get their undies in a bunch just thinking about us depriving those poor innocent victims their right to beg our hard earned money.
</rant>

Scout, I'm not going to armchair quarterback your actions. As in my prior post, I genuinely believe you did everything right. If I had been in your situation, I doubt I would have thought things out so clearly. If there's any doubt in my mind as to what those morons are capable of, I just watch the video of that moron beating on the car with a tire iron in rush hour traffic, everyone else looking on completely dumbfounded....